570 

ni fl5 

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»py 1 itary Policy of the American Legion 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

SIXTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 
RELATIVE TO 

AWARDS OF DECORATIONS AND THE MILITARY 
POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION 



I'riiited for the use of tlic Coininittee on IMilitarv Affairs 




WASHINGTON 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

1922 






COMIVIITTKE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS. 
JAMES W. WADSWORTH, Jh., New York, Chairman. 



FRANCIS E. WARREN, Wyoming. 
HOWARD SUTHERLAND, West Virginia. 
HARRY S. NEW, Indiana. 
IRVINE L. LENROOT, Wisconsin. 
SELDEN P. SPENCER, Mi.ssouri. 
ARTHUR CAPPER, Kansas. 
RALPH H. CAMERON, Arizona. 
HOLM O. BURSUM, New Mexico. 
GEORGE WHARTON PEPPER, Pennsylvania. 

R. E. Devendorf, Clerk. 

W. A. Duvall, Assistant Clerk 



GILBERT M. HITCHCOCK, Nebraska. 
DUNCAN U. FLETCHER, Florida. 
HENRY L. MYERS, Montana. 
MORRIS SHEPPARD, Texas. 
KENNETH D. McKELLAR, Tennessee. 
JOSEPH T. ROBINSON. Arkansas. 



LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 

RCOEIVEO 

f > 231925 

ppcUMSlbLta OlVISION 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 



FRIDAY, JANUARY 27, 1922. 

United States Senate, 
Committee on Military Affairs, 

W(i.'<lii)u/ton. D. C. 

The coiimiittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. in., Senator James W. Wadsworth, jr. 
(chairman), presiding. 
The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 
We are ready to hear from yon, Col. Markey. 

STATEMENT OF MR. D. MARKEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE MILITARY 
AFFAIRS COMMITTEE OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 

Mr. Markev. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have prepareil 
here a brief, and I am going to ask the secretary of the couunittee to distribute 
it, and I will read it to yon as the statement of the military affairs committee 
of the American Legion. 

Statement of the Military Affairs Com]\iittee of the American Legion. 

This military affairs committee of the American Legion is appearing before 
you by direction of its national convention, held at Kansas City last October, 
to approve and commend the proper development of the military policy out- 
lined in the national defense act. as amended June 4. 1920. 

The American Legion at its first national convention in Minneapolis in 1919 
called for an adequate and appropriate military policy for our Nation, and it 
is their opinion that this national defense act provides a sound, practical 
national defense. It is particularly interested in this policy because it provides 
in times of peace for a small standing army, with a citizen army capable of 
rapid expansion in times of emergency, which we believe to ))e in harmony with 
our national institutions and our traditional military policy. 

The citizen soldier part of the Army, as represented in the National Guard 
and the Organized Reserves, provides, in the opinion of the Legion, the most 
democratic and the most economical solution of our problem of national defense. 

It is our opinion that the funds included in the budget estimates are essential 
to the development of this prograuL We are convinced that the recognition 
given by the War Department estimates to the importance of the National 
Guard and the Organized Reserves represents the minimum appropriations for 
the Organized Reserves and even less than the niininium for the National 
Guard for the proper fmictitunng of these component parts of the Army of 
the United States. If the financial condition of the United States demands a 
more rigid economy than the necessary welfare of those component parts of 
our military establishment require, then we urge the maintenance of these 
items in their complete integrity. 

The American Legion recognizes the national demand for retrenchment and 
reduction in governmental expenditures, but as practical men, who have 
learned the lessons of preparedness by the hai-d experience of war, we are 
confident that it would be a great mistake, at this time, to limit the proper 
functioning of the national-defense act by any further reduction in the esti- 
mates as submitted by the AVar Department and approved by the Budget 

Committee. 

3 



4 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMEEICAN LEGION^. 

We are convinced that in the preparation of these estimates the economic 
demands of the country have received tlie fullest and most carefl considera- 
tion by the Secretary of War and any material cut will seriously affect an 
adequate national defense of our comitry and will tend to bring it below 
what is recognized as a proper margin of safety. 

The American Legion unqualifiedly indorses the recommendations upon the 
comm'ssioned iiersonnel of the United States Army made by Gen. Pershing. 
It believes that tlie elimination of a considerable number of the least effective 
officers of the Regular Establishment will tend to increase the efficiency of the 
entire Army of the United States. We l)elieve that the commissioned personnel 
should notbe cut belov,- the number recommended by Gen. Pershing, which is 
the number approved by the Budget Connuittee, as these officers are required 
not merely for the units of the Regular Army but for the development of the 
National Guard, the Organized Reserves, and the system of citizen training. 

This committee is also directed by its national convention to recommend 
legislation that will provide that the time for making recommendations for and 
the awarding of the congressional medal of honor, the distinguished service 
cross and the distinguished service medal for service in the war, be extended 
five yeai-s after the declaration of peace by the United States and also that the 
law which allowed men who had previously been reconnnended for the con- 
gressional medal or honor but who failed to receive the distinguished service 
cross, be changed so that the lav/ shall apply to all persons now in or who 
have been honorably separated from, the military service of the United States. 

A-^ representatives of an organization containing a million exservice men, 
organized into 11,000 posts throughout the Un ted States, we feel entitled to 
expect with some confidence that tlte country will look for some time to the 
exservice men of the Nation for a sound and patriotic .iudgment upon subjects 
relating to national preparedness. 

Tlie committee on military affaii's is concerned with the broad question of 
policy as it affects our national defense, without reference to any special inter- 
ests. " Our recommendations are based upon comprehensive viewpoint of the 
working of tlie entire Army reorganization act in a harmonious, efficient, and 
economical development of each of the component parts of the Army of the 
United States. 

D. JoriN Mabkey, Maryland, Chairman. 
Edwaed L. Logan, Massachusetts. 

A. G. Thacher, New York. 

Hanson E. Ely, lotca. 

Geo. E. Leach, Minnesota. 

John j\IcA. Palmeu, District of Columhia. 

Arthur F. Cosby, Ncjo York. 

E. y. Rickenbacker, Ohio. 

Senator Warren. Have you been before either of tlie two committees of the 
House, the IMilitary Affairs Committee or the Appropriations Committee, or 
have you arranged to appear before them? 

Mr. Markey. We were before both the Military Affairs Committee and the 
Subcommittee on Appropriations yesterday. We also had a personal con- 
ference with Mr. Madden, the chairman of the committee, and submitted to him 
personally one of these statements of the committee. 

I want to possibly qualify one statement there in connection with what I 
have said, in the paragraph at the beginning of the second page of the brief, 
where it has been indicated that even less than the minimum for the National 
Guard, by stating that in the budget estimates there is provided an appropria- 
tion of .$30,000.(X>0 for the National Guard for the fiscal year beginning June 
30. That, in the opinion of the Militia P>ureau, whom I am quoting, is in 
their .judgment sufficient only for a Guard of 143.000 men. Today there is in 
the National Guard of the country 140,000 men, with every rea-onable assump- 
tion that the number of 143,000 will be reached in a very short time ; so this 
committee desires to call your attention to that fact, that there are no pro- 
visions made in the "Budget appropriations for the Army for any increase 
along the lines provided for in the Army reorganization act for the National 
Guard, from June 30 this year and continuing through the next fiscal year. 

The Chairman. When you state the number as 140,000. you mean by that, 
do you, that that is the number that has been organized and federally recog- 
nized ? 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGIOISr. 5 

Mr. Markey. Federally recognized. I was advised by (Jeu. Riekards yester- 
day that that is the number, and the committee is submitting these facts, based 
upon his stiitement. 

Senator Fletchek. Does that include officers and men? 

Mr. Markey. That includes officers and men. 

Senator Fletcher. How many officers? Do you know? 

Mr. Markey. I do not know, but I desire to say on behalf of ths coumiittee 
that we are particularly interested in the 18 National Guard provisions, as are 
provided for in the Army reorganization plan. We believe that those IS 
divisions are of first and prime imiiortance, and that the correlated groups as 
represented in the corps and Army troops, are of secondary importance. If 
there should be any way in which first consideration in the recognition of any 
other units would be given to the basic divisional troops, it is the opinion of 
this committee that that is wise and sound. 

The Chairman. You think it would he good policy to pernut the organiza- 
tion of the Army and corps troops to be delayed? 

Mr. Markey. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And the others to be hastened? 

Mr. Markey. l"es, sir. That is the opinion of the committee. 

The Chairman. Y"ou mean by that, the pi(nieer regiments and the anti- 
aircraft? 

Mr. Markey. Yes. For instance, Mr. Cliairman and gentlemen of the com- 
mittee, I was advised that of the 140,000 that there are to-day in the. National 
Guard, 97,000 are in the divisional organizations, and the balance are in the 
corps and Army troops. We consider the divisional organizations to bc> of the 
first importance. 

Senator Lenroot. Do you think provision should be made for an increased 
National Guard, even though in order to do so, it might l)e necessary to i-educe 
the personnel of the standing Army? In other words, if there is a given amount 
of appropriations, would you so divide it? .- 

Mr. Markey. The counnittee has not approached that phase' of the question, 
and as to just what their recommendations are I do not know. Their interest 
is first in the development of the citizen-soldier part of the Army. 

SeuiLtor Lenroot. But you hidicated in your statement that to be the fact? 

Mr. Markey. But we indicate also that we believe that the Regular Army, 
at its strength to-day of approximately 1.50,000 men, represents about what is 
necessary for the proper functioning of the Army of the United States, if 
there is desired any force in this country for emergency purposes. 

Senator Lenroot. Another question with reference to your brief. There 
seems to be some omission in your statement here : " And also that the law 
which allowed men who had previously been recommended for the congres- 
sional medal of honor, but who failed to receive the distinguished service 
cross, be changed so that the law shall apply to all persons now in, or who 
have been honorably separated from the nulitary service of the United States." 

Just what do you mean by that? 

Mr. Markey. It may not be as clear as it ouglit to be, but I want to give 
.vou the substance of it. The law, as provided, prevents men who were not in 
the service of the country from receiving proper consideration. You will notice 
it says, " shall apply to all persoiLS- now in, or who have been lionorabl.v sepa- 
rated from." That is the substance of it. It is also the oiJinion of the com- 
mittee that this subject should be considered under two separate heads, be- 
cause the first part of it applies entirely to World War veterans, and the sec- 
ond part would api^ly to veterans of other wars, and we do not think that one 
should be coupled with the other in matters of legislation. 

The committee will be very glad to answer any questions that will throw 
any further light upon this statement. 

The Chairman. We are very glad to have you here and to get your views, 
and let me say that we will be obliged to have any other observations that you 
have got to make concei-ning the scheme that is now working; as to how it is 
working out, or how you think it might be improved, or how you think it might 
be improved or protected. 

Mr. Markey. The attention of the committee might be called to the fact that 
this provision that we have put in our brief recommending an extension of 
time in considering awards for D. S. C, D. S. M., etc., is a direct mandate 
from our national convention, and is based upon the consideration that a gen- 
erous allowance of time should be given. A time limit is desirable, but there 
should also be a generous allowance made for those who require possibly affi- 



6 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 

davits that come from men in all sections of the country, and it is very diffi- 
cult to locate a lot of men to-day whose affidavits possibly are necessary. 

The military alTairs committee last year gave very careful consideration to 
it, and made this recommendation to the national convention, which was 
adopted, that the time limit be five years from the declaration of peace, which, 
under our interpretation, is from the proclamation of tlie President, about four 
uKmths ago. 

Senator I^enroot. Do I understand that the law now is that these medals 
can not be conferred after separation from the service? 
Mr Mabkey. Those last medals ; yes. 
Senator Lenroot. That is what I mean. 
Mr. Markey. Yes. sir. 

The Chairman. In your recommendations concerning the medals, did you 
take into account or malve any estimate of how many medals had been con- 
ferred thus far? 
Mr. Markey. We have not, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Logan. We did learn, Mr. Chairman, that the War Department did rec- 
onuuend that it should be extended only six months, and that matter came to 
our attention wlien we went before the House Military Affairs Committee yes- 
terday. I think we explained, or tried to explain, to them -that six months 
would be utterly of no avail to us ; that therefore any time which had been 
arrived at, after almost a year's discussion, by tiie legion military policy com- 
mittee, we were serious in our recommendations in asking for five years from 
the date of the declaration of peace. 

The Chairman. You think it will take that time to do justice? 
IMr. Logan. You see. the difficulty is rluit in the citizen army, tliese men 
who composed it came from all jiarts of tlie country. Recommendations were 
made at the time the acts occurred, and tliose recommendations in some in- 
stances were lost, and in some instances were not a.pproved, and never reached 
the l)oar.d which had tlie awarding of them. Now, in the gathering together 
of the records of regiments, the action wliicli was taken upon tliem comes to 
light, and that further information wliicli can )>e now obtained, should he ob- 
tained, so that these men wiio should l)e awai-ded medals may receive them. 
Several men who were in my regiment are now scattered all over the United 
States. If you want to get their aflidavits, it is a matter of substantial time to 
get the necessary information from these men. Therefore we believe that 
there should be substantial time allowed, and not the extension recommended 
by the War Dei)aftment, namely, a period of six months, which period wcmld 
liave substantially expired in another month from now. and therefore the legis- 
lation would have been of no avail. The original application for the award 
must be filed within three years after the happening of the event, so that on 
November 11, 1021, any applications then not pending had lapsed. If you give 
them six months more, it would make them six months from November 11, 
1921, and that would be of no avail at all. 

Senator Wakren. Is it your understanding that all that were pending and 
not acted upon would la])se? All these applications or recommendations that 
were pending when the date arrived would lapse, notwithstanding they had 
I)een filed and received unfavorable consideration? 

I\lr. Logan. I think not. It is perfectly clear in my mind what would happen 
to those which were then pending. 

Senator Warren. My understanding is that tha.t time linut is simply the 
time for the applications to be made in, but that the bestowal could be made 
afterwards. 

IMr. Logan. My understanding of the act is that the recommendation nmst 
he made within a period of 3 years : but exactly as this, it could be awarded 
10 years from now. 

Senator Warken. The reason for that is rather apparent, when in times 
past, before this war, the conunittee have been besieged by applications 10 or 
15 or 20 years old, and the kind of evidence that was presented, of the com- 
mendation of ofiicers or those they served under, or with whom they served. 
It seemed necessary to have some date of termination. I liave not given much 
attenticm to the matter and I might be wrong. I sliould think that those that 
were filed within the time woidd be alive until they were passed upon, either 
favorably or unfavorably. 

Mr. Logan. Well, for instance, this occurred in some instances : A company 
conuuander would make a reconnnendation, and it came uj) to the regimental 
commander, who forwarded the recoujuiendation, and it went to division head- 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMEEICAN LEGION. 7 

quarters, and whoever liad cliarue tlier;^ — I have seen that in some division 
records, wrote, without knowing anything more than lie saw in tlie aflidavits, 
"No," witli his initials after it, or "Yes," with his initials after it. It was no 
satisfactory adjudication or determinaton as to whether that man was en- 
titled to an award or not. In some Instances, the records going from regimental 
headquarters to the division headquarters were lost. 

In a number of instances men who unquestionably ought to get awards have- 
not had their matter tinally presented to the final authority, namely, the board 
which has been constituted for the awards. Now. time is bringing "up the ques- 
tion as to what happened with this reconnnendation or that reconunendation. 
What we want, therefore, is a deliberately detHrniincHl time in which \\e may 
gather together the reconnnendations which were made, see what determina- 
tion has been made upon them, and press for. the awards which we believed at 
that time ought to be given. It is not for the purpose of searching out new 
applicants for an award and getting an award for them; but, in fact, gathering 
together the recommeridations which were made at that time, or inVmie in- 
stances, reconnnendations which were not made at that time but shoulil have 
been made, and getting to those jnen the awards for their distinguished service 
that the (TO\ernment originally intended that they should have. 

It can not be done unless there is substantial time given. The men who 
composed that Army in large part were citizens, wlio, when they got out of 
that Army, had to get back and attempt to adjust themselves to' the changed 
economic conditions which they found upon tlieir return. For example, I was 
interested in my own practice. There were men in my regiment who ought to 
get awards, but I have been trying to gather together my own business, and 
not perhaps, as I should have been, devoting my time to getting tlie awards 
that these men ought to have. That is true with men all over the country, 
not only with colonels or lieutenant colonels, but with majors, captains, aiid 
lieutenants. 

Now, if a man ought to get "an award, the GovernuK^nt provides a method 
by which it shall be determined and how they shall get it. What they want 
now is. in the calmer days of peace, that they might have an opportunity of 
gathering together the pi-oper aflidavits and subnutting them to the properly 
constituted authorities and getting for these men the awards Avhich tliey may 
deserve. 

Senator Fletcher. It is not for the purpose of opening up the question and 
letting in applications that never have been heiU'd of, ])nt it goes back to the 
original company commander's indorsement and starts there, I suppose? 

IMr. Logan. It will have to be taken up by the man who personally saw the 
act itself, by the proper constituted authority recommending to the boai'd 
which sits here in Washington. I think, the liasis upon the papers as they 
are presented to them. In other words, for example, suijpose Col. Markey is 
recommended foi* an award; if it gets up to this boai-d and this boaril is not 
fuite satisfied with the affidavits which are presented, there appears in the 
affidavit a statement of some man who saw the act performed at that time, 
and additional information is required from this man. You then try to find 
out where Sei-gt. A is. His original address was given somewhere in Missouri. 
Then yon try to find him. He has moved from Missouri, and he has gone down 
to Texas, and you try to find him there. That can not be done in six months. 
If Congress determines that all the.v are entitled to now is six months, I 
think the Legion would say we had l>etter not have it at all, because it is 
useless. 

Senator Fletcher. Suppose Col. Markey performs some act that would entitle 
him to this medal, but nothing has been said aliout it heretofore, would you 
want to bring up that sort of a case now. to start it now? 

Mr. Logan. Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, Senator, it was absolutely impos- 
sible to operate the typewriter as prettily in those days as it is now. In very 
many instances it was the captain who expressed in the English language the 
deed* itself that got for his man the award. Oftentimes these awards failed 
because the language of the conii)any commander did not sufficiently express the 
act. There is n(>t any doubt about it. 

The Chairman. His mastery of English was not sufficient? 
Mr. Logan. The company commahder who wrote the best English in describ- 
ing the same act got the awai-d. Now, all the company conunanders were not 
college graduates, and therefore we want an op]iortunity for a prosier con- 
sideration, under more reasonable terms, of the nature of the act wliich was 
performed and the reason for the decoration. 



8 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 

Senator Lenkoot. I have the Uiw before me here, niul I observe that the pro- 
hibition is against the issuing of tliose medals after three years of the per- 
formance of tlie act, except in cases of those who are now in the service and 
the act is shown by the official records of the department. Now, do you think 
that this should be extended five years for the purpose of application? Should 
there not be some time when new applications shall be cut off prior to five 
years from the passage of this law? 

Mr. Logan. AVell, Senator, how are you going to determine when the appli- 
cation was made? The company commander makes application to me. I for- 
wai'd it and it goes to the division headquartei'S. It is handled in the division 
headquarters by a man who does not know anything about it, except the litera- 
ture as presented to him. Now. is that application made or is it not? I have 
never been able to determine. It never reached the board which might have 
passed upon it, because it stopped right thei*e. 

The Chairman. What Senator Lenroot means is. is it necessary to extend 
the period to five years for the purpose of making the application? 
Senator Lenroot. Initiating the application; yes 

The Chairman. Had you considered the possibility of limiting to a shorter 
period tlu> making of applications. Imt extending to the five-year period the 
settleme)it of the applications? 

Mr. Logan. I had not considered that, except .just this : If tlie act itself war- 
ranted a decoration, if the failure of the man to get a decoration was due n.ot 
to h's fault hut to tlie fault of the man who happened to be his superior officer, 
if when tb.ey get back from the war they are too busy with other things to get 
that man his decoration that man is .lustly entitled to, you are only extending 
to that man a widei- opportunity to get recognition, which the Government 
believes he ought to have if the act itself justifies it. I do not think it makes 
a particle of difference whether you extend the act 5 years or 20 years, if the 
deed itself is worthy of recognition. The sooner he gets recognition the better; 
but if it has to be delayed even 20 years to get justice performed, no time limit 
ought to be put on that. 

We only suggested this time limit ])ecause we believed that if they saw that 
they had to get these things in now, l)y raising the question and getting agita- 
tion on it the application will be made by men who had forgotten about the 
things themselves in getting for the man this recognition. They would begin 
to giither together their information and to get it now. 

For example. I have a case in point. There was a motor cycle rider in my 
regiment named Julius Hooley, who is a blacksmith in the city of Lowell. I 
do not think there was a braver man in my regiment. He had absolutel.v no 
distinction for his service. He was an ordinary little ruffian. He was born 
near Nancy, in France, and he rendered most conspicuous service. I do not 
know of any man in my regiment who rendered better service. He has no 
decoration for that service rendered. It is not entirely my fault, but it is the 
fault of others in the regiment that that man has not got a decoration. He is 
a man of no social ivositioii. but a man whom I believe ought to be awarded 
the distinguished service cross at least by this Government. I want an oppox'- 
tunity to get that recommendation of that man in. 

The Ch-airman. Now. take the case in hand. Woidd it not be sufficient to 
allow a year or two for the filing of the application and then allow a more 
extended period, of course, for passing upon the application? I agree with you 
thoroughly that this six months which is now proposed as only an extension of 
time is utterly inadequate. In fact, it is almost null and void the day it is 
enacted, but five years from now it might be a great deal easier to get applica- 
tions than it is now. What we are all concerned with, and you more than we, 
is that there be no cheapenhig of these medals ; that they be held up as real, 
extraordinary decorations, and if we limit the time of applications for a rea- 
sonable period I think we will fortify ourselves against a letting down of the 
standard, as reflected in applications which we will say might be put in four 
years or four years and six months from now. 

Senator Sheppard. INIust the application come from the man himself? 
Mr. Logan. No. The application nmst be made, generally, by one of the 
observers and affidavits submitted of the act itself by those who saw it. 

Senator Sheppard. Then, generally, it would be made by the commanding 
officer ? 

Mr. Logan. It generally was made by the commanding officer. 
Senator Sheppard. Does the law extending the time for application specify 
who must make the application? 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 9 

The Chairman. No. That is a matter of regulation in the department. 

Senator Sheppaed. Of course, tlie man himself frequently is too modest to- 
make the application. 

Senator Lenroot. I tind another provision of the law here. In addition recom- 
mendation for recognition must be made within two years after the performance 
of the service, and it can not be conferred at all unless the othcial records in the 
department show distinguished service. Now, in the case you siwak of. under 
the law as it is. even though notwithstanding that, you can not get a dis- 
tinguished medal for your man. 

Mr. Logan. I think I could. 

Senator Lenroot. Yon said there was nothing in the records of the depart- 
ment to show any distinguished service upon his part. 

Mr. Logan. Right, because there were tliose in our division who arbitrarily 
determined, far from the .^cene of activity, whether the man ought to get an 
award or not. 

Senator Lenroot. But this language is '" nur unless tlie othcial records of the 
department show distinguished service." 

The Chairman. The applicntion from tlie ctrmpany connnander constitutes the 
official record. 

Senator Lenroot. But not at this date, I take it. 1 do not rliink the applica- 
tion of one who is no longer in tlie service would constitute an ofllcial record of 
the War Department. 

i\Ir. Logan. I think so. I think you are wrong about that, although you may 
he absolutely correct. Take my division, for instance. We came back from tlie 
war. and our records went to Camp Devens. They were kejit in those wooden 
barracks, and they went in some instances to Camp Meade. A tire occurred 
there and they were destroyed. We are trying to get the i'ec<jrds of our division 
together. I assumed they are officially in the records of the W^ar Department. 

Senator Lenroot. Yes : I don't question that, but here is the record as dis- 
tinguished from the application or recommendation now liy the company com- 
mander. There is notlinig in that record showing distinguished service. Do 
you think that an application made by you now would: constitute an official 
I'ecord of the department? 

Senator Fletcher. What is the present record of this man that you speak of? 
His military record? Wliat is there on the record to show his service? 

Mr. Logan. I don't know, sir. I only Iviiow that he was reconimended, and I 
know that the award was never made. Now, we were never in a position to 
get in control of the records, which were above us. Now is the (jnly time we 
ate beginning to find any trace of them. 

The Chairman. Then he was recommended? 

Mr. Logan. He was recommended. 

Senator Lenroot. I understood you to say there was notliing of record. 

T^he Chairjian. That is a part of the record, then. 

Mr. Logan. But, where is the recommendation? 

Senator Lenroot. Well, if before your separation from the service, and while 
you were in tlie service, you liad made that recommendation, I take it for 
granted that that \\f)uld constitute an official record of the department. 

Mr. Logan. I sliould assume so ; yes. sir. 

Senator Lenroot. But after you have separated yourself from the service and 
you make a reconmiendntion. I do not consider it woubl lie an official record of 
the department. 

Mr. Market. That is a very tine iioiiit you are raising there. 

Mr. Logan. It might be that if that is so we should ask for ;i further cliange 
in the law. 

Mr. Market. I think you ought to examine that phase. 

Senator Lenroot. I am not taking a position on it one way or tlie other. 1 
am simply considering tlie law as it is. 

Mr. Logan. We are not considering the technical question as to whetlier they 
come within the provisions of that rule. 

Senator Lenroot. But you are asking for an extension, and my query is what 
good would your extension do you unless you further amend the law? 

Mr. Logan. We want to get for these men what they are entitled to get for 
their service. If they are not entitled to get it, they ought not to have it ; but 
we want the opportunity for these men to get awards, not for the purpose of 
cheapening the medal, but for the purpose of enhancing the value of the medal, 
so that the men who perform these acts will actually geit the medal. 

88869—22 2 



10 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 

Senator Lenroot. I suggest that you reconsider this matter, iu view of the 
provision of the hiw, and see if you have any further suggestions to mal^e. 

Mr. Maekey. Don't you think that it would be necessary for the Judge 
Advocate General to rule what would constitute the official records before we 
consider additional legislation on this subject? 

Senator Lexkoot. Yes; but suppose we give you this extension, then what? 
Mr. Markey. But if we could determine it now, whether it would constitute 
the official record, then it would cover all cases. 

The Chairman. What do you think. Col. Markey, of the five-year period for 
the making of applications? 

Mr. Markey. I think your point is very well made. Senator Wadsworth. The 
committee never really gave consideration to that phase. We were considering 
the subject as a whole, and we felt just as Col. Logan indicated, that there 
should be a generous provision on behalf of Congress. It might not take 
that long, but we thought there should he a time limit. We might have said 
three years, and then we said : " Well, why not give full opportunity for the 
presentation of any worthy case? " We thought that would be sufficient time 
to give them all consideration. After that, you could limit the time for the 
making of applications to a shorter period than the time of awarding them. 
The Chairman. You mean, make the time for awarding them longer? 
Mr. MAKKEY^ Yes. 

The Chairman. Y'^ou see, the making of the application does not require very 
much time. 

Mr. Map,key. No. 

The Chairman. It is the supporting of the application by affidavits and 
finding the men who saw the acts that takes up the time. 

Mr. Markey. As a concrete suggestion, you have iu mind three years for the 
applications and five years for the awards? 
The Chairman. Well, something of that sort. 

Senator Fletcher. I think you will have to amend that statute rather than 
simply extending the time. 

Mr. Logan. The general who commanded a brigade in our division sent me 
a note with two cases in it. One is the case of Capt. Wells, who was killed. 
The only witness to his killing was the medical officer, who was promptly trans- 
ferred from the division. .No recommendation was made, and Gen. Cole believes 
that his act was an act which would warrant the awarding of some decoration. 
The other is Gen. Cheatham. A recommendation was made for an award to 
him. Those papers are lost. Now, there are two cases upon which the official 
records might not show that the application was made, but at least in which 
applications ought to be made, and the doors ouglit to be open for letting in 
those applications. If it was determined at that time that the awarding ought 
to be made by superior officers, and tliat application never got into the records 
of the War Department, there ought to be an opportunity for getting in those 
records. 

Mr. ilARKEY. We will t;dve tliat matter up. and wo will also look into these 
provisions of the la\\ and secure interpretations, if possilile at this time, from 
the .Judge Advocate General as to the admissibility of official records in the 
siiape of new statements. 

The (Chairman. Now, your statement which you read at the beginning of the 
hearing lays especial emphasis on the National Guard and the Organized Re- 
serves? 

Mr. Markey. Y'es. 

The Chairman. Now? I understand thai you favor the support of those two 
in connection with the appropriations. You might tell us. Col. Markey, in support 
of that argument, how you think the National Guard is getting on, for example. 
We just know tlie figures you have given of ]40,(KX) men, but there is a great 
deal more to it than mere figures. Is is growing healtliily? 

Mr. Markey. If you permit, I can answer in a personal way. I command a 
federally recognized regiment of Infantry in my State of approximately 1,200 
officers and men. We have liad a steady and consistent growth. An unusual 
thing about my regiment is tliat practically all the officers have had combat 
service, and this fact has materially aided our very substantial progress. There 
are a number of readjustments that we considered should be made, but they 
are more or less of a minor detail, but considering the policy as a whole, and 
looking upon the National Guard as what Congress expects it to be, a dependable 
military asset to our Nation, I feel that what experience I have had would 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN" LEGION". H 

lead me to l)elieve conclusively that tliat is true and that the National Guard 
is in a very healthy state. 

I have a graph of each of my company's attendance, and just to look at that 
occasionally gives one an idea of the regularity of the attendance at the as- 
semblies for instruction. I know that in my own State of Maryland — and I 
am somewhat familiar with the National Guard of Senator Pepper's State, 
Pennsylvania — I know that we feel we are making very substantial progress 
and that the efficiency of the guard, .iudged to-day as compared to the guard 
judged tlie year before the war. or in lOic, in my opinion it is at least 50 per 
cent more efficient. 

The Chairman. That is a vei*y enC-ouraging report. 

IMr. ilAKKKY. ^Ve have had no real difficulty at all. We recently passed over 
what v\e called our first crisis. The tirst crisis in the average National Guard 
regiment after its reorganization is contained in the period when the 1-year en- 
listments expire. Men with previous service are permitted to enlist for one 
year. The others are required to enlist for three years. We have passed that 
1-year enlistment period, and we hardly noticed same as there was hardly any 
dimunitioii at all in the strength of the regiment. 

The Chairman. What persentage of your enlisted men are veterans? 

Mr. Markey. The percentage runs, I judge, about anywliere from 10 to 15 
per cent in the various companies, with an average of about 12i per cent, largely 
represented in the nonconunissioned personnel. I heard an interesting state- 
ment this morning from Gen. Leach, who is here from the National Guard of 
Minnesota, in which he stated that he preferred not to have private soldiers in 
his organization who were veterans of the World War. He felt that these men 
had received in the war sufficient training as private soldiers, and if their 
qualifications did not justify their being noncommissioned officers it was, in his 
opinidu. better to spend this time and money on the training of new men. 

It is a perfectly normal condition that we do not have any more war veterans 
than we do in the National Guard ; and as long as we have the commissioned 
personnel and at least 50 per cent of the noncommissioned personnel with war 
experience. I am confident the National Guard will lie in splendid condition for 
active field service. 

Senator Fletcher. What is the size of your companies? 

Mr. jMarkey. The size of the Infantry companies averages about TO men. I 
have two or three companies with 90 or 95, but they would average about 70 
men for the lettered companies. 

The Chairman. Did any of you have any ob.servations to make of the 
Organized Reserves? 

Mr. Markey. Mr. Cosby is here, and he can possilMy say something in con- 
nection with this branch of the service. 

The Chairman. We would be very glad to hear him. Just give the reporter 
your name for the record, Mr. Cosby, and then proceed in your own way. 

STATEMENT OF MB. ARTHUR F. COSBY, NEW YORK CITY. 

Mr. Cosby. My name is Arthur F. Cosb.y. Gentlemen, tlie Organized Reserve 
is still approaching its first crisis — to carry on the expression of the chairman 
of this committee. Mr. IMarkey — because the Organized Reserves comprise four 
elements — the Officers' Reserve Corps, of 65.000 men, who have not yet be<ai 
called into active service under the law. which allows a 15-day limitation, 
because of lack of appropriation ; the Reserve Officers" Training Corps unit, which 
is a going concern, growing stronger and more successful every year ; the Citi- 
zens' Military Training Camps, which were started for the first time last year, 
and very successfully started. The appropriation was a small one, and allowed 
11.000 nien going to the camps, although 40,000 actually complied. Then, the 
Enlisted Reserves, which is still in the making. 

Those are the four elements of the Organized Reserves, they together making 
the third component branch of the Army, and they in time of a national emer- 
gency will be the nucleus of an organization for providing under this national 
defense act a system of 3 divisions in each corps area, or 27 divisions. That 
is, in point of numbers, the Organized Reserves is the largest element, potential 
in the future, of ahy of the branches of the Army under the reorganization 
act; so that, speaking for the Organized Reserves, the opinion of the Legion 
committee was that here is a branch that is still in the making, partly made, but 
very much has to be organized. 



12 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 

The appiopriatious recouiinencled by the War Department and approved by 
the Budget Committee for all of these four units totals something; less thail. 
$11,000.0(X), scattered through these four branches. In the opinion of the 
legion conunittee, that amount is the mininunn amount to get this important 
element of the citizens' army and of the future Army of the United States 
going successfully. If you reduce this amount you will practically kill this 
branch of the service before it gets going. In a broad way, that is the view of 
the conunittee on that point. 

Senator Shkppaud. What is the estimate for the coming tiscal year? 
Mr. Cosby. That is the estinnite, sir— .1?11,<»U(>,0U0. 
Senator Sheppard. Was that what you had last year? 

Mr. OosBY. The estimate last year, sir, for the total was but four or five 
millions. For last year, the Ofilcers' Corps — remember you have got 65,000 
men in the Officers' Reserve Corps to-day — G-ijOOO officers, with a certain amount 
of training, with certain approved standards, ready to serve the country; but 
last year the appropriation for them was oidy .$2.'5O,00O. That allowed soni»» 
hundred to go into the training camp to help in the Citizens' Training Camps, 
and a few to go on duty here in the AVar Department General Staff. The- 
reconnnendation for this year for them is three or four million dollars. That 
will allow 20.000 being called out for the 15-day training period. 
Senator Sheppard. Is that included in the .$11,000,000? 

'My. Cosby. Yes, sir ; that is included in the $11,000,000. That also provides 
not only for the 15-day training camps, but also for some of them to act as 
instructors in the Citizens' Training Camps, to help in that instruction, and 
also for some of them to go on duty in the War Department with the General 
Staff. Under the present policy they have a few of the Reserve Officers on duty 
in the War Department. 

The .Chairman. I think there are not over a dozen altogether, are there? 
Mr. Cosby. No, sir. It is a very small amount. There is an increase this 
year of from .$250,000 to $3,000,000, but this Officers' Reserve Corps had never 
been called out before. We all know that these young men who wanted to get 
into active service and keep up their training have never before had an oppor- 
tunity. 

The R. O. T. C. appropriation last year was very nmch the same as they 
have asked for this year. La.st year it was .$3,000,000. This year it is 
$4,000,000. Those are in the colleges. There are about 3.50 colleges that have 
R. O. T. C. training camps, and as they graduate they come into the Reserve 
Corps and the National Guard. 

Senator Sutherland. What is the amount appropriated for that item? 
Mr. Cosby. This year $4,000,000. Last year it Mas $3,000,000. 
Senator Sheppard. You mean the estimate is $4,000,000? 
Mr. Cosby. The estimate this year ; yes, sir. 

Senator Lenroot. And the appropriation last year was $3.0(X),000? 
^Ir. Cosby. The appropriation last year was $3,000,000, roughly, somewhere 
around there. For the Citizens' ^Military Training Camps the appropriation 
last year was $900,000, which permitted about 11.000 being trained. The 
recommendation for this year is .$2,700.(JOO, which would permit of about 
33,000 men going into training. 

The Chairman. That is for the live-week period? 

Mr. Cosby. That is for the 30-day period. I presume the members of your 
committee are familiar with the general provision of these training camps, 
in which the Government pays all the expenses of these young men for 30-day 
periods. They are absolutely democratic; they are held in all parts of the 
country. The way that law has been administeretl is that every State and 
every i)art of every State has an equal chance for the young men to come to 
these training camps. 

Senator Sutherland. How is this money expended for the Officers' Reserves? 
Mr. Cosby. Under the law. sir, a member of the Officers' Reserve Corps is 
required to give 15 days on active duty, if called into active duty. In that case 
he is paid according to his rank. The bulk of that amount of $3,000,000 for 
your Officers' Reserve Corps is for the pay of the officers. They pay for their 
own food. That is simply their pay. It is the same in the case of a reserve 
officer as with a regular officer on active duty. He is simply paid his salary, 
and then he has mileage. IV is ordered to a certain point for training and 
his mileage is paid. 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 13 

Senator Sutherland. It is for training, is it? 

Mr. Cosby. Yes, sir ; that is for active trainins". 

Senator Sheppard. I>o you mean tliat tliey liave training camps for tliese 
reserve officers? 

Mr. Cosby. Tlie plans of tlie War Department contemplate In eacla corps 
area to have training camps. Tliat is being worked out now. It is lioped now 
to have them trained actively with tlie troops. Some of them will train witli 
their own reserve divisions. 

Senator Sutherland. These reserve officers have nothing to do with the 
training camps, then? 

Mr. Cosby. That is gradually being worked together. These reserve officers 
would be called out for their 15-day training period, and then some of them, 
under the plans contemplated, will be given the opportunity of volunteering 
to give 30 clays' duty in addition, and they will he especially selected and used 
as instructors in the citizens' training camps. 

Mr. Markey. I would like to empliasize .iust there, I\Ir. Chairman, the recom- 
mendation of Gen. Pershing, which is unqualitiedly supported by the legion, 
upon the use of a certain number of these Reserve Corps officers in the citizens' 
training camps during the sunmier. He states that it is an experiment to be 
tried this sunnuer, which you can see reduces the overhead of the officer per- 
sonnel. If you can call out competent officers and they are qualified to give 
this training in the citizens' camps, or a certain number of them, rather than 
to keep that same number of regular officers through a period of 12 months 
to do the same work, it will materially reduce the expense. Gen. Pershing 
states that it is an experiment. It is the opinion of this connnittee that it 
will he a very successful experiment, and we are very heartily in accord with 
it. We think that that particidarly is what is in your mind, to make .some 
use of these Reserve Corps officers in these citizens' training camps, and if 
we can do so, of course, it will help in keeping the connnissioned personnel 
of the Army at more nearly the figure that possibly it is to-day. 

The Chairman. For the purpose of the record, Maj. Cosby, I wonder if you 
will state the qualifications for admission to the citizens' training camps? 

Mr. Cosby. The qualifications, sir, are very simple. A man must have aver- 
age general intelligence and be of good moral character. He is given that 
certificate by a schoolmaster or clergyman or priest or rabbi. That is what 
the regulations call for. That is one certificate. The other one, that he should 
have sufficient physical sti'ength for the work in the camp, is given by a 
physician. With regard to the age qualifications, the age last year ran from 
16 to 35. This year they are going to raise the age limits from 17 to 25, the 
■object being that most of the young men that are coming are of the high school 
age and some young men in the colleges. They average around IS or 19 ; but 
you must remember, gentlemen of the committee, that the citizens' training 
camps do not apply sinqily to these young boys. Their system there is to have 
three camps, the red course, the white course, and the blue course. The red 
course is the first, preliminary course in the duties of a private ; that is, 
the basic fundamentals that every soldier must have in every branch of the 
service. On completing that course satisfactorily he would then go the next 
year to the white course. 

Senator Sheppard. Does he take a full year to complete that course? 

Mr. Cosby. No, sir. Thirty days. If he completes it satisfactorily he will be 
eligible to go to the white course camp next year. In that camp the duties are 
more extended and he is tauglit the duties of a noncommissioned officer in some 
T)ranch of the service. 

Senator Sheppard. Is that completed in the second year? 

Mr. Cosby. That is completed in the secand year; the second 30-day course. 
Then in the third year he would take the lilue course, where he would have 
further training that would advance him theoretically to become a commis- 
sioned officer. 

Senator Sheppard. Is that course completed also in 30 days? 
Mr. Cosby. Yes, sir. It is completed on paper in 30 days, but at the same 
time I think everybody recognizes that you can not make an officer like that in 
30 days. It is expected that when they get to that point they will take some 
further instruction, possibly correspondence work or outside work, because they 
will have to pass examinations. Only a few of those who take that training 
would probably be fit to be a commissioned officer. 



14 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 

Mr. Maekey. May I suggest here that the thought in this committee is that 
these citizens' training camps should be tied in with the National Guard and with 
the Organized Reserves. If a man, for instance, is going to the white course 
camp, we believe it should be used to send our noncommissioned officers from 
the National Guard there for their training. I felt that it would be wise to 
qualify the statement of Mr. Cosby so that you might know that it is not the 
purpose to have citizens' trainings camps, 30 days for a private, 30 days for a 
noncommissioned officer, and 30 days for a commissioned officer that were not 
helping in developing the National Guard and Organized Reserves. The thought 
is to coordinate these camps so that these men, when they come out of their 
training — for instance, a red course camp man will go first into the National 
Guard or the Organized Reserves and then they may be selected to go back the 
following year to the white course camp, if they are available material for non- 
commissioned officers, and later, if selected, to the blue course camp. I think 
the fact should be given your committee, because j'ou should realize that the.se 
citizens' camps are not a distinctive growth along military lines, not correlated 
M'ith the training of the citizen part of the Army of the United States. 

Senator Fletcher. These enlisted reserves may or may not l)e National 
Guard? 

Mr. Markey. Oh, yes. That is the Organized Reserves. 

Mr. CosB\^ The whole object of these citizens' camps is to give them an oppor- 
tunity for training men who have not had it otherwise, to get them interested 
in the subject, and then act as feeders for the National Guard and also the 
enlisted reserves. 

The Chairman. Hew did the camps turn out this last summer? 
Mr. Cosby. They were extraordinarily successful, sir, from the point of view 
of appearance of the boys ; the boys themselves, 90 to 95 per cent of them, want 
to come back this year. Also from the point of view of the employers. We 
found in the actual recruiting that young men could not give 30 days in many 
instances. They could not get the time off without the consent of their em- 
ployers where they were working; but the employers found that when they came 
buck their discipline had improved so much and also their health had improved 
so much that the.v are now in favor of having their young men go. 

Senator Spencer. Was the nuijority of attendance from the employed class or 
from the school class? 

Mr. Cosby. Last year they were young. They were mostly from the school 
class; but as they go on and increase in numbers you will get a larger propor- 
tion from the employed class, because nearly all young men over 16 years old 
work. We found also, sir. that a great many of them enlisted in the National 
(iuard. 

The Chairman. You mean after they left the camps? 

Mr. Cosby. After they left the camps. Others are joining up with the enlisted 
reserves. 

The Chairman. Gen. Logan, you ai*e an old guardsman. How does the guard 
regard the Organized Reserves now? 

Mr. Logan. I think the relationship between the National Guard and the 
Organized Reserves is im a much more intimate and friendly basis than it has 
ever been. I remember at the outbreak of the war they came to us just before, 
we went to France in August. 1917, some W officers who were reserve officers, 
and we accepted them with a great deal of diffidence and an attitude almost 
approaching hostility. We had a lot of noncommissioned officers whom we 
regarded as splendid men, whom we wanted to promote, but these men came to 
us. They promptly became a part of our organization, and many of them were- 
the most efficient officers we had. I think we learned, therefore, from our ex- 
perience that in the first place we were, through this movement, getting efficient 
officers that we were not otherwise getting; that it was increasing very largely 
the efficiency of the organization to which they came. As a result of their very 
splendid service in the war, I think there is a very decided movement on the 
part of the National Guard not only to cooperate but to encourage every effort 
on the part of the Government to strengthen and increase the movement for the- 
Organized Reserves, for its officers and its ]iersonnel. 

The Chairman. You think it is a pretty good recruiting agency, in a sense,, 
for the Guard? 

Mr. Logan. Well, I don't know that it is going to work out exactly in that 
respect. On the contrary, we think that men who find that they haven't got 
an opportunity of serving in the guai'd are going info other organizations, be- 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMEEICAN LEGION, 15 

cause of the difficulty of giving tlie time necessary for efficient service in tlie 
guard. I do nut think it is going to he a very great recruiting field for the 
guard itself. 

Mr. IMarkey. Tlie guard will he a hetter recruiting agency for the reserves. 
Mr. Logan. I think so. 

The Chairman. In other words, the guard does not fear the reserves? 
Mr. Logan. No; I think not. I think that there is a very much better attitude 
all round than there has been for many years. I think that all elements com- 
posing the Army are working more nearly along harmonious lines than they 
ever have worked before. I am sure that in this committee, which represents 
every branch of the Army, there has never been more harmony than on this 
question. 

Senator Fletcher. The question would be whether wo are not rather dupli- 
cating our effort in launching, exi^enditures that we uiight avoid by not keep- 
ing up the two organizations, whether it would not be better to center on the 
National Guard, for instance. 

Sir. Logan. Of course that all depends. Senator, ujion how many men you want 
to get into the service of the United States. Personally, there is a dist net 
difference between the two services — the service in tlie National (luard and the 
other service about which we are talking. 

Senator Sutherland. Can you state that briefly? I d(» not quite understand 
the distinction. 

]\Ir. Logan. A man, for example, who is iu the National Guard is required 
to assemble regularly and is continuously under military instruction. Their 
opportunity of being called into the Federal service is one which can be imme- 
diately complied with. In other words, you can take your National Guard and 
you can call it out promptly ; you can make it act at once. 

The Chairman. You can send it to the border, for example? 

Mr. Lo(;an. You can send it to the border, as you have done. The other or- 
ganizations are being gathered together now for the purpose of making com- 
pleted iniits out of them, which can get some service, but not the weekly and 
in some instances daily service that the National Guard is getting. It is the 
reserve force that will follow along after the National Guard. You will get. 
your National Guard, and then these other men will come along afterwards. 

Senator Spencer. Available for call if needed? 

j\Ir. Logan. Available for call if needed. 

The Chairman. But you ought to state that they might be called out only in 
case of war or a national emergency declared by Congress. The National 
Guard can be called out by a governor of a State, or can be called out by the 
President of the United States to repel invasion, suppress rebellion, etc. In 
other words, the obligation is nuich heavier than the reserves' obligation. 

Senator Lenroot. To that extent the guard is that much more important 
than the reserves. 

iNIr. Logan. We think so; yes, sir. So that the young man can not fail, 
therefore, to go into the guard except with the understanding that he may be 
at once called upon and will liave to give up his civil obligation in response to 
what is regarded as a national duty. 

Senator Lenroot. Is it possible that because of the lesser obligation on the 
part of the reserves that men do go into the reserves that otherwise would go 
into the guard? 

Mr. Logan. I do not think there is any doubt about it. 

Senator Lenroot. Then we have lessened the efficiency of the guard to tliat 
extent, have we not? 

Mr. Logan. In other words, when I get to the point that I decide to give up 
my connnission in the National Guard, but still desire to have an opportunity 
to sei-ve the Nation in time of need, still having a military bent. I am going to 
see if I can not get into the Organized Reserves. 

Senator Lenroot. But you might stay in the National Guard but for the 
existence of the reserves? 

Mr. Logan. No; I think not. I think every one of us looks forward to the 
time of turning over to the younger men the oppfg'tunity of getting into more 
active service, but still hold ourselves ready in case of emergency, for we have 
followed this game for many, many years, and we would like to still remain in 
a position where we can continue to render service to tlie Government in thne 
of need. 



16 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAK^ LEGION, 

Senator Spencek. Now, while it is actually tnie that there may be a few 
that would go into the reserves because it is available, who, in case the reserves 
were not available, might go into the National Guard, is it not equally true 
that that number is comparatively negligible compared to the much larger 
number who would go into the reserves because it is available, who, if it were 
not available, would go nowhere? 

I\Ir. Logan. There is no doubt about it. For example, a man went into the 
war and served in the Officers' Reserve Corps out of a feeling of duty, and 
there was that opportunity for them to give service, and they were determined 
and anxious to get into it. They were not in the National Guard before the 
war, because that necessity did not impress them or they were not willing to 
give their time from their duties to the service in the National Guard, Init who 
are willing to give a lesser time from their business duties to military service. 
Others are particularly fond of it and are willing to .ioin the National Guard. 
Therefore the Organized Reserve is an opportunity where this man can be in 
training and can be called upon by the Government in a nmch greater state of 
efficiency than if the Government failed to provide that opportunity for this 
man by appropriating the money for the Organized Reserves now. In other 
words, you are getting very nmch more efficient service from this civilian popu- 
lation than if you failed to make the appropriation. In other words, as the 
military game progresses these men will not have progressed with it, and we 
certainly want progression, which they can get by a slight expenditure on the 
part of the Federal Government. You are getting a wonderful personnel when 
you are getting these men in. 

Senator Spencer. If there were no Organized Reserves at all, the service of 
these men would be entirely lost? 

Mr. Logan. Absolutely, sir. Some few of tliem would go into the National 
Guard, but I know that in my own case, for instance. I happen to be a brigadier 
general of the National Guard now, and some men whom I asked to go on my 
staff, \A'ho had been Reserve officers, said that they could not atford to give 
up the time to the National Guard, but that they would go into the Reserves 
or they would go to war again, but they were not going to be cont nually under 
obligations by which they would have to be bound if they were in the National 
Guard. I wanted those men actively. If you can not get those men actively, 
you want to get them as actively as you can get them. Tlie only v/ny you can 
get them is to get them into the organized Reserves. 

Senator Spencer. The National Guard depends in part on the individual ac- 
tion of the State, doesn't it? It is not independent of any State? 
Mr. Logan. No, sir. 

Senator Spencer. So that one State may promote the National Guard and 
another State might neglect it? 
Mr. Logan. Yes, sir. 

Senator Spencer. But the Reserve is wholly a national affair? 
Mr. Logan. Yes, sir. 

Senator Spencer. To what extent has the National Guard been reestablished 
since the war by the various States? 

Mr. Logan. I can only speak of Massachusetts with any degree of authority. 
There I think it has progressed to a very efficient degree. 
Senator Spencer. Have all the States taken action? 

Mr. Logan. I think so, but I do not know the degree of success they have 
had in the different States. I know in some States it is greater than it is in 
others. It always has and probably always will be. 

Mr. Markey. These tables are very interesting. I have observed them in 
the Militia Bureau. I am going to ask you to hear from Gen. Leach, from 
Minnesota. 

The Chairman. We would be very pleased to hear him. 

STATEMENT OF GEORGE E. LEACH, MINNESOTA. 

Mr. Leacpi. I would like to add just one point. I have been in the same 
regiment for over 20 years. ,1 understand that I was the tirst National Guard 
officer in the United" States to take examination for a Reserve commission. 
This was several years ago. I took it at Sparta, Wis. I am very much inter- 
ested in the Reserve Corps for the reasons that have just been advanced and 
for other reasons. For instance, in the Artillery we need many specialists. 
AVe need balloon observers. We need radio experts. Some of these men live in 



MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 17 

towus where they can not take advantage of the National (Juard organization. 
Some of them live wh'.-re they can do so, but I want to keep those men with me. 
For instance, during the war I had an operations ofttcer who was a v,-oiulerful 
officer. He is now in a little town in Texas working for the Standard Oil 
Co. as an oil-well engineer. I want to keep that man availal)le in the service 
of the United States. He can not join the National Guard. There is no Guard 
in his town or where lie can get to it. We have iightiug nuUeriiil in the mail 
.service, the airplane service, and many others who are not at home, so that 
tliey can not join the National Guard, but these men, I understand from one 
of tiie members of the committee. Mr. Rickenbacher, are something like 90 per 
cent efficient for real .service oh account of their commercinl activities. Those 
men should be lined up with some service to the United States, and the Reserve 
Corps presents the only i)lace where they can serve. 

As far as the specialist in the Army is concerned, I think the Reserve Corps 
furnishes a very distinct service. The radio men, for instance, come from men 
that were with the different radio companies in the country, and are experts 
in their lines. Those men become excellent soldiers in a short time. They 
were not capable of connnanding troops in many cases, but their services are so 
valualile and so necessary along these special lines that I want to speak im- 
qualitiedly for the Reserve Corps. I have been in the Naticmal Guard almost 
all of my life. 

]\[r. ^Iarkey. Col. Palmer is liere. and I will ask him wliether he will not 
make a connnent on these two branches of the service. 

STATEMENT OF COL. JOHN McA. PALMER. 

Col. PALifKR. I would like to speak particularly with reference to the possible 
conflict between the Organized Reserves and the National Guard. It seems to 
me that the great feature of tlie new national defense act is that it provides 
for a definite organization in time of peace of what we have always regarded as 
the traditional American war army; that is. an army of citizen soldiers. Sec- 
tion 3 of the act provides that the War Deiiarfment should determine actually 
the organizations that would be needed immediately on moliilizafion for 
national defense, and then it provides for three classes of personnel from 
v.-hicli these organizations may be formed. That is. tlie Regular Army, v^;hich 
must be very limited ; the National Guard, which will be more nunrerous 
than the Regu.lar Army, but still limited, not only for financial reasons but 
also by our aliility to fill it up by volunteer enlistments in time of peace ; then 
this reserve personnel. Now, we can never have enough men in either the 
Regular Army or the National Guard to form all of those necessary organiza- 
tions, so that those organizations which can not be formed from the Regular 
personnel or the National Guard personnel can not be formed at all unless 
they are formed in these Organized Reserves. But the tlieory of it is that if 
these units which are to come in as a third line are formed in skeleton, if it 
is determined in advance tliat they are to be d'rawn from particular localities — 
if the officers and noncommissioned officers of these units are in place in tiiese 
units in time of peace, then the formation of these units woiUd be very greatly 
expedited if some great emergency should come. 

I ha]ipened to be on duty with this connnittee when tlie law was in prepara- 
tion and I have noticed a very remarkable change of sentiment in regard to 
this citizens' army as time goes on. I think it is becoming more and more 
recognized that the National Guard is the first line of the citizen army, com- 
posed of those individuals who are prepared for sudden emergencies, and who 
voluntarily take that obligation in time of peace. The organized reserve, or 
second line of the citizen army, will be composed of peojjle who will be obli- 
gated only in the event of a great war. Now. I think that what you might 
call the suspicion l)etween those two forces — very natural when it started — 
is very rapidly disappearing. We are beginning to see more and more that if these 
tv,-o f()rces are developed propei-ly, each within its proper line, the development 
of either will help the other. I laiow it is Gen. Pershing's policy, and he has 
so instructed all cf)rps area conunanders, that- in finding \eterans of the war 
who are willing to serve in the citizen army, all of them who are free to take 
the National Guard obligation should regard that as the prime obliga- 
tion. It seems to me that, as time goes on, it will be recognized that these 
two forces have each an entirely separate mission, and that if either one of 



18 MILITARY POLICY OF THE AMERICAN LEGION. 

them is properly developed alons the Hue of its own mission it not only will 
not hurt the other but will help tlie other. I am quite certain that sentiment 
is growing. 

The Chairman. Now. were there any other members of the committee who 
would like to ask the gentlemen any questions? Did you have any further 
observations to make, Col. Markey? 

Mr. Markey. No ; that is all, Senator. 

The Chairman. Do any of the rest of you gentlemen wish to say anything 
further? 

Well, we are very nuich obliged to you. I am speaking the opinion of the 
conmiittee when I say that I hope this will be an annual event. 

Mr. Markey. We hope to have the privilege of submitting to you at other 
times, when we are not able to come here personally, memoranda that the 
committee feel ought to be brought to your attention. We appreciate very 
much your courtesy to this committee and accept it as representative of your 
feelings toward the American Legion. 

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned.) 



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